Interesting finishing order by current and former drivers

Four current or former Yates Drivers right in a row.

After doing great here in the spring, Menard was just slow all weekend. We didn't have anything unloading.

While it is a given that Yates equipment isn't decent, I don't think Darnell has shown enough in his 5 races so far to be considered for even a developmental type of ride.

Gilliland is in top equipment, but is still a mid-pack to back of the pack type of driver.

Labonte had a great finish last week, but couldn't do anything this time around. Labbe is usually pretty good on these intermediate type of tracks. I don't know what was wrong with him today.

28 21 202 David Gilliland Toyota Farm Bureau Insurance 79/0 331 Running
29 39 98 Paul Menard Ford Vertis / Menards 76/0 331 Running
30 38 96 Erik Darnell Ford Academy Sports + Outdoors 73/0 331 Running
31 28 171 Bobby Labonte Chevrolet CBR Motorcars 70/0 331 Running

I can help with that.


Slugger tried to use the wave around to gain spots, and that didn't even work. Bobby was lapped early, lapped again, and lapped a third time. He got a wave around, made it up to 2 laps down, and then finished 4 laps down.

But, the Wave Around worked well for Sadler...put him up to 1 lap down, and he finished 22nd.

The crew chief for David was kicking himself for three things...not having the car set up well off the truck, and for not doing the wave around. The third? For running out of gas. DG and KyBu pitted the same lap, and KyBu ran out of gas before DG. But losing the gas cost them 5 positions. And don't forget...the car is there for R&D purposes only.

Merri wrote:

I can help with that.


Slugger tried to use the wave around to gain spots, and that didn't even work. Bobby was lapped early, lapped again, and lapped a third time. He got a wave around, made it up to 2 laps down, and then finished 4 laps down.

But, the Wave Around worked well for Sadler...put him up to 1 lap down, and he finished 22nd.

The crew chief for David was kicking himself for three things...not having the car set up well off the truck, and for not doing the wave around. The third? For running out of gas. DG and KyBu pitted the same lap, and KyBu ran out of gas before DG. But losing the gas cost them 5 positions. And don't forget...the car is there for R&D purposes only.

I actually liked Slugger for the short period he was with Yates. He doesn't mind cutting corners with the rule book. Yates was too high and mighty to put up with that.

Why would you say that the 02 car is there for RD purposes only? I read where Gibbs said it was there to fulfill a contractual obligation to Farm Bureau. I read another article where Gilliland said this was by far the best equipment that he has been given the opportunity to drive and he needs to be able to show results.

He has been given GREAT equipment. If you were to rank the teams based solely on equipment, it would go Hendrick, Gibbs, Roush, maybe MWR and Childress tied and then everyone else.

What have been his finishes in the three races he has driven for Gibbs so far? I don't remember them all, but I know the one he took over for Busch wasn't that good. He was racing in the 30s with our Yates guys before the wrecks that took out a bunch of cars and allowed them all to move forward. This one was another mediocre finish. I really can't remember what he did in the other race for Gibbs.



It’s a big opportunity for the 33-year-old Gilliland.

“My career and my whole life of racing has been the highs of highs and the lows of lows, but we always seem to pull through it,” Gilliland said in a phone interview Tuesday. “I feel like I’m a tough person or you won’t make it a week.

“We’re here to hopefully stay. It’s a performance-based business, and the better equipment, the easier it makes it to be able to perform.”

Gilliland, who has 112 career Cup starts, finished 14th at Las Vegas and 19th at Atlanta for his best finishes this season, which has included nine races where he didn't attempt the full event. He has qualified for all but one race he has attempted.

He will have to qualify on speed for these three races with JGR, but it’s three races that are fully funded at three of Gilliland’s favorite race tracks. He said a top-10 finish in those races is not out of the question. He already has tested the car to get accustomed to it as well as working with crew chief Wally Brown. He said the car he will drive will be a new car that was good in the wind tunnel.

“I’ve had a lot of unique opportunities this year, and I’ve been fortunate enough to be at the race track a lot, but this one definitely is … an opportunity of a lifetime and one of the best opportunities I’ve had in my career,” Gilliland said.

“I’m really looking forward to it. Obviously Joe Gibbs Racing is at the top of their game right now and running really well.”

I got the R&D comments from David himself, from his crew chief, and from numerous broadcasts on both Sirius and Speed TV! If you wish, I believe I have a few of those interviews recorded, and I will be happy to play them for you...but you will have to wait until I am done moving.

The article also shows quotes directly from David.

But, I have also heard the R&D thing... so, I'm sure that they are doing some developmental stuff to help out for next year. Frankly, I'm sure Gibbs never had any intention of keeping David in the fold past these 3 races anyway. Not a knock on David, just seems to be the case.

My point is, to say it is a RD deal means they are just out there to basically test and that is what they are worried about, trying new things. Gibbs said they are running the car to fulfill contract obligations to Farm Bureau.

Another thing, to be correct, you really can't say that running out of gas cost Gilliland 5 spots when he was only up to 23rd because of others running out of gas in the first place. Basically, it all evened out. He, Menard, Labonte and Darnell were all equally bad today. They all were in the 27-28 to 33-34 range for most of the day.

I think this is one of the things that maybe caused issues when I posted on the DG board. I can call a spade a spade. I know Yates guys had a bad day, and can say so. I know Gilliland and Labonte had bad days, and can say so. That doesn't mean I dislike any of them. They have a job to do, and didn't do it as well as a lot of other guys they were competing against. That doesn't make them bad people, it just means they are average to below average drivers. I think Mennard and Darnell are in terrible rides. I hate to say that. I am a Yates die-hard. But it is what it is. Gilliland, in his own words and as I'm sure everyone would agree, is in very good equipment. Better than his finish would indicate.

TeamBlueOval wrote:

The article also shows quotes directly from David.

But, I have also heard the R&D thing... so, I'm sure that they are doing some developmental stuff to help out for next year. Frankly, I'm sure Gibbs never had any intention of keeping David in the fold past these 3 races anyway. Not a knock on David, just seems to be the case.

Yes, but those quotes come from David before he was actually racing. And you will not find many drivers who will say 'no, we have no plans to win...since this car will be trying out how widget A will fit with thingie B" especially not in a company provided press release.

BTW, the pit crew are members who are either trying out for the team, or trying to move up from Nationwide to Cup. They improved quite a bit this week, but did not equal any of the stats from the other three cars.

I do have several interviews recorded, but sadly...they are on a hand-held recorder that I think will not be found until sometime before Christmas, the way this move is going!

TeamBlueOval wrote:

The article also shows quotes directly from David.

But, I have also heard the R&D thing... so, I'm sure that they are doing some developmental stuff to help out for next year. Frankly, I'm sure Gibbs never had any intention of keeping David in the fold past these 3 races anyway. Not a knock on David, just seems to be the case.

My point is, even with Gibbs equipment he is running with the lackluster Yates teams. We know Yates equipment isn't worth a ()&*(&. Maybe if you were Gilliland you could make the argument that your bad results were the result of a bad ride, but now you are in top end equipment, and you still aren't running at or anywhere near the front.

Look at the results of his teammates the three races he has been in the car. I would be willing to bet he was the worst of the four in each race (except for the one where Hamlin blew an engine - and even in that race, the 11 car was up front).

To me it isn't a knock on Gilliland. I already knew he was a so-so driver. I just found it interesting that four current or former Yates drivers finished in a row when many of the fans who pull for Gilliland and Labonte would say that their driver was much better and would perform better given better equipment. I haven't seen the results prove that yet (though Labonte did finish 10th last weekend in Dega).

Actually, Mark...you didn't have problems on the Gilliland board because you call a spade a spade, you had problems on the Gilliland board because you only saw one side of the deal...yours. And anytime anyone disagreed with you, you inferred that we were unrealistically defining our driver. Yet, you were doing the same from the opposite end of the spectrum.

The ONLY reason I am here, is because you still like to infer how bad you think Gilliland is. And I keep hearing how you were going to stop coming to the board once David was no longer driving a Ford, and yet, you show up frequently. In fact, I can see you were there just a short while ago! And if you were there, you would see a very reasonable post talking about what went on ... the bad and the good.

Mark, if you insist on calling a spade a spade, make sure you get ALL side of the spade's story. Crap happens in a run, just as good happens in a run. You stated you didn't know why David finished barely ahead of the others...and I gave you the answers. There are reasons things work, and there are reasons things don't work. For you...you don't care...it only can work the way you want. Cool for you.

I want Gilly to do well, but I am realistic enough to know from what i hear, on the radio and on the TV, that a R&D car, with a crew chief who is the head of R&D for Gibbs, and who also has stated he has no desire to be on the pit box more than for these three runs because he his heart is in R&D) will not be performing nearly as well as a fully functioning team, that has been together for nearly a whole season.

AS far as Labonte..I would hope he would do better for TRG...as there is still a possibility of a future with TRG in our sport. But, it looks like they gave Bobby the old equipment they gave David.

At some point, Mark..you will realize that your debating skills may only be truly appreciated by yourself.



I apologize to Andrew for this outburst. Andrew, you run a good site. I usually enjoy it, and most of the people who post here.

I read about 6-7 driver boards on a daily basis - DG's included. I don't have anything against him just because he isn't with Yates, so why wouldn't I read his board?

I posted about him on here on this thread because I thought it was interesting to see that there were four current and former Yates drivers all in a row.

As far as the rest of your argument, kettle - meet pot. So are you saying that you on the other hand do see both sides of the story and give an unbiased view of the entire picture? I am not saying you have never done it, but I have never seen you simply say that Gilliland wasn't able to get the job done. There is always, always, a reason he doesn't finish well other than his skill level. How about his finishes for the most part are reflective of his skill level? He is out there with 43 of the best drivers in the world, to admit that he might only be about the 23-25th to 33-35th best isn't exactly a slap in the face.

In my opinion, he's not terrible, he is average to a little below average. However, we don't have to base this off of my opinion, we can point to his finishes as proof. For a couple of years now, you have made the equipment he is driving the scape goat. Now that he is in top end equipment, there's another excuse offered up.

And to be sure, when I found out he was driving for Gibbs in a FB car, I emailed my agent (though I'm not a farmer, I do have FB insurance) and thanked them for the sponsorship. If I had a issue with DG, why would I do that? The answer is, I don't have an issue with him. I'm simply pointing out the order of finishes.

When Raceview gets the Texas race loaded...spend some time listening to the scanner. You will hear the crew chief say:

We didn't give you a good car.
We should have set the car up differently in the shop.
We should have worked on something else during practice.
We should have come off of the truck better.
I should have done the wave around.
..and various other things.

I dare you.

Have a good night, Mark....

Merri wrote:

When Raceview gets the Texas race loaded...spend some time listening to the scanner. You will hear the crew chief say:

We didn't give you a good car.
We should have set the car up differently in the shop.
We should have worked on something else during practice.
We should have come off of the truck better.
I should have done the wave around.
..and various other things.

I dare you.

If that is what you are basing your argument off of, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is a weekly occurrence when just about every team isn't having a good run. Listen to the other scanners and see how often the crew chiefs take the blame so as not to put it on the driver. Almost to a man, crew chiefs take the blame so as to settle down their driver and allow them to concentrate on what they are doing out there.

Good night to you too!

The current ride that David Gilliland has is not one that is going to answer the question "Is David Gilliland a good driver or not?" Since that question is un-answerable with his current ride (and his ride at Yates for that matter), I am locking this thread.

One last point to remember, David did WIN (in convincing fashion) a Nationwide race several years ago with a team that was usually a start and parker. So, given capable equipment, he can do the job.

(And, I really have no position. I don't care for him one way or the other.)